# tactiq.io free youtube transcript
# Interview with inventor of the microprocessor, Federico Faggin
# https://www.youtube.com/watch/SVS3-NDUC0M

00:00:00.610 [Music]
00:00:03.600 dr federico faggin
00:00:06.080 on consciousness artificial intelligence
00:00:09.200 and science
00:00:16.160 in the past you were convinced as a
00:00:18.320 physicist that consciousness must
00:00:20.080 somehow emerge from the operation of the
00:00:22.560 brain
00:00:23.600 what made you change your mind
00:00:28.240 well what made me change my mind was the
00:00:32.079 fact that
00:00:34.480 i could not
00:00:36.640 understand how consciousness could
00:00:39.200 emerge
00:00:40.960 from
00:00:41.450 [Music]
00:00:42.640 a computer that you know where there are
00:00:45.200 only electrical signals
00:00:48.160 and therefore from the brain as science
00:00:51.840 is telling us
00:00:53.360 which has electrical and electrochemical
00:00:55.760 signals
00:00:56.879 and molecules and so on it didn't make
00:00:59.600 sense to me and so i started
00:01:02.559 studying
00:01:03.680 whether i could or could not have a
00:01:05.600 computer be conscious and the more i
00:01:08.000 studied the more i tried to make it
00:01:09.760 happen be more impossible uh it became
00:01:13.200 and so
00:01:14.320 so it was in this familiar in this
00:01:16.720 questioning
00:01:18.159 that was going on within me that i had
00:01:21.040 an extraordinary experience of
00:01:22.880 consciousness
00:01:24.320 that
00:01:25.600 told me that consciousness was even much
00:01:28.479 more than i thought it was
00:01:30.400 and so so after that experience i i
00:01:34.079 you know it was clear that consciousness
00:01:36.320 was something way beyond what science
00:01:39.360 was even hinting at
00:01:41.680 and uh and i needed to explore it
00:01:44.640 because that experience was so powerful
00:01:47.280 and so life-changing that i i could not
00:01:50.479 let it go
00:01:52.880 it was through this process that i
00:01:55.280 arrived at the conclusion about 20 years
00:01:57.520 later
00:01:58.479 that consciousness must be fundamental
00:02:00.719 it must be
00:02:02.079 the
00:02:02.799 starting point of reality as opposed to
00:02:05.600 the ending point of an evolution that
00:02:08.239 created us
00:02:11.200 so next to the intellectual insights
00:02:13.840 it's your direct experience of
00:02:15.520 consciousness that has shifted your
00:02:17.200 perspective
00:02:20.319 yeah absolutely it was that experience
00:02:23.920 uh that uh
00:02:27.680 show me clearly that uh we are much more
00:02:31.519 than i thought we were
00:02:33.920 so that experience essentially
00:02:36.480 allow me to see myself as the world
00:02:40.239 that observes itself
00:02:42.959 through my point of view so i was a
00:02:45.200 point of view of the world that observes
00:02:47.760 itself with that point of view which is
00:02:51.040 you know completely different than what
00:02:53.120 was my
00:02:54.720 sense of self i i perceive myself as a
00:02:58.239 separate from the world observing
00:03:00.640 the world outside of me
00:03:02.959 and so i was certainly not the world i
00:03:05.360 was simply something other than the
00:03:07.760 world now i am the world observing
00:03:10.319 myself
00:03:11.280 and the world is love the world is joy
00:03:15.040 is peace is something
00:03:17.440 that i never felt like that before so
00:03:20.959 how can i be not only the world but a
00:03:23.760 world that is so unbelievably
00:03:26.640 uh familiar at some level and yet so
00:03:30.840 powerful and incredible
00:03:33.599 um
00:03:34.879 at that time also my body was resonating
00:03:38.480 uh with that experience so my body was
00:03:41.360 hot
00:03:42.560 like myself were
00:03:44.319 completely you know uh all
00:03:47.120 all vibrating together
00:03:49.599 and uh
00:03:50.720 uh i saw the
00:03:53.120 you know i saw a
00:03:55.040 basically it was a white scintillating
00:03:57.280 light and and i understood that white
00:03:59.840 scintillating light was the stuff of
00:04:02.480 which everything is made
00:04:04.560 so
00:04:05.360 uh
00:04:06.159 everything was
00:04:07.840 in resonance so to speak
00:04:10.319 and
00:04:12.480 it was the first unit of experience that
00:04:14.560 i had i i then understood for the first
00:04:17.279 time
00:04:18.320 what was meant for a spiritual
00:04:20.238 experience a spiritual experience is one
00:04:22.320 that
00:04:23.280 makes you be one
00:04:25.520 makes you feel
00:04:27.199 makes you live yourself as one with the
00:04:30.080 world
00:04:31.600 so i am the world
00:04:33.680 i am one but i'm also a viewpoint of one
00:04:36.880 so i'm a part but also a whole
00:04:40.479 which is you know kind of
00:04:43.840 contradictory superficially
00:04:46.880 but it is also what quantum physics is
00:04:49.280 telling us that when they describe
00:04:52.000 particles as something which is both a
00:04:55.440 particle and a wave where the wave can
00:04:58.639 be everywhere so
00:05:00.880 already quantum physics
00:05:03.039 is similar in
00:05:05.440 a concept
00:05:07.280 to that experience
00:05:11.440 how and why in your view has that
00:05:14.000 experience of consciousness come about
00:05:18.000 basically uh
00:05:19.840 at that time i was uh
00:05:22.160 i was not happy about myself i had
00:05:25.039 achieved everything that the world says
00:05:26.960 that if you do
00:05:28.400 you should be happy
00:05:30.080 and but i wasn't happy and i didn't know
00:05:32.000 why i mean uh
00:05:34.160 objectively i should have been happy
00:05:37.120 and so happiness is also a question of
00:05:40.479 consciousness right is consciousness
00:05:42.479 that allow us to be happy or not happy
00:05:45.280 and so while i was trying to understand
00:05:47.440 what consciousness is by trying to make
00:05:49.600 a conscious computer or
00:05:51.440 a program that could feel something
00:05:57.280 i was distressed i wanted to know
00:06:00.800 and i wanted to know not because i
00:06:02.240 wanted to do anything with it just
00:06:04.080 because i wanted to know and it was that
00:06:06.960 intensity i believe
00:06:09.199 that brought that experience that
00:06:11.600 experience came during a vacation
00:06:14.000 christmas vacation holiday
00:06:17.360 i was up in in tahoe lake tahoe which is
00:06:20.800 in california
00:06:22.160 and where we had a a vacation home with
00:06:25.199 my family and uh and i woke up
00:06:28.160 one night thursday and
00:06:30.960 took a glass of water and
00:06:32.720 that experience happen
00:06:34.880 it started with a rush of energy coming
00:06:38.240 out of my heart
00:06:39.759 uh there was
00:06:41.039 you know feeling
00:06:42.880 it was a love it was feeling like a love
00:06:45.600 that i couldn't possibly generate how
00:06:48.080 can i generate this kind of love is you
00:06:50.880 know and if any and i saw it as a
00:06:54.240 as a beam you know about a couple you
00:06:57.039 know one or two feet wide of white
00:07:00.479 scintillating light then exploded and
00:07:03.680 filled the entire visual space and
00:07:06.960 and as if i was seeing the entire
00:07:09.840 universe which then was
00:07:12.800 identified as me so all of a sudden i am
00:07:16.560 that wow i mean how how can that how is
00:07:19.520 that possible
00:07:20.880 so as you can see this kind of
00:07:23.039 experience is not something that you can
00:07:25.840 read in a book and understand it can
00:07:28.639 only be understood if you have this
00:07:30.639 experience if you live it
00:07:32.479 and it's exactly what consciousness does
00:07:35.440 consciousness is the capacity to know by
00:07:38.319 living
00:07:39.680 what we know
00:07:41.199 by becoming what we know so
00:07:43.520 consciousness is is a magical property
00:07:46.479 that cannot be defined
00:07:48.639 with anything simpler than itself and
00:07:51.120 that's why must be fundamental it cannot
00:07:53.680 be derivative from matter that has none
00:07:56.800 of these properties
00:07:58.879 you know it was so clear after that
00:08:01.120 experience the concept must be
00:08:02.639 fundamental but i wasn't ready to say
00:08:05.120 that because i'm a scientist and i you
00:08:08.000 know i was brought up with the idea that
00:08:10.080 consciousness is an epic phenomenon of
00:08:12.319 the brain so it's not even real in the
00:08:14.879 sense that it has no cause of power
00:08:18.240 and so i i decided to study that study
00:08:21.360 consciousness by myself but with help of
00:08:24.639 others you know therapists
00:08:27.919 and
00:08:29.039 people that uh you know people that
00:08:31.680 follow
00:08:32.640 some spiritual traditions so i i went
00:08:35.200 through many types of meditations and so
00:08:37.679 on and and through that process i
00:08:40.958 i had many other extraordinary
00:08:42.719 experiences of consciousness that that
00:08:45.360 gave me the contour so to speak of what
00:08:48.080 consciousness is
00:08:49.920 and so through this process
00:08:52.160 uh it after 20 years
00:08:54.959 i was convinced that hey science is
00:08:57.680 wrong on this on discount science is
00:09:00.160 telling us the consciousness
00:09:02.080 is uh you know is a phenomenal a
00:09:05.120 material phenomenon and that cannot be
00:09:07.519 possibly be and that's when i decided
00:09:09.600 that i have to study this full time
00:09:12.800 where before i was dedicating 30 40 of
00:09:15.600 my time
00:09:16.640 uh you know about 12 years ago i decided
00:09:19.200 that's it i need to do this and this i
00:09:22.480 started the foundation the federico and
00:09:24.640 ldf dream foundation with my wife
00:09:27.440 and the purpose of this foundation is to
00:09:30.080 understand
00:09:31.760 scientifically the nature of
00:09:33.360 consciousness and understand what does
00:09:35.680 it mean
00:09:36.800 in the narrative of what of how this
00:09:40.000 universe evolved because clearly if
00:09:42.800 consciousness is fundamental the
00:09:44.959 universe could not have evolved as inert
00:09:48.399 matter
00:09:49.360 to later on evolve consciousness 13.8
00:09:52.959 billion years later after the big bang
00:09:55.279 so you know consciousness must have had
00:09:57.920 a hand in the creation of this universe
00:10:00.800 from the very beginning so to me that
00:10:04.240 that meant that the story
00:10:07.680 around the
00:10:09.200 you know
00:10:10.000 creation of the universe that science is
00:10:13.040 telling us cannot be correct
00:10:17.760 if you had to explain consciousness to a
00:10:20.160 child what would you say
00:10:25.120 i would say to the child
00:10:27.839 that consciousness is what allows him
00:10:31.360 to feel
00:10:33.120 love
00:10:34.399 for his mother for his father for his
00:10:38.399 for his uh
00:10:40.160 uh sister and brothers if he has any
00:10:43.040 and and for the things that he loves
00:10:44.640 even for a toy i mean
00:10:46.800 this feeling that he has that's what
00:10:48.880 consciousness does
00:10:51.120 now because consciousness is so so much
00:10:55.440 part of how the child knows and what the
00:10:57.839 child feels about
00:11:00.079 himself or herself
00:11:03.279 he may not understand what i'm saying
00:11:05.040 because it's you know we know because we
00:11:07.519 are conscious so so we we never question
00:11:10.959 until much later why are we conscious
00:11:13.519 what what is in fact
00:11:15.200 you know even the idea that
00:11:17.040 consciousness must be something special
00:11:20.000 uh must have arisen
00:11:22.720 uh
00:11:23.519 in you in the human consciousness
00:11:26.320 much later maybe 10 000 years ago maybe
00:11:28.959 20 000 years ago but certainly
00:11:31.279 uh
00:11:32.079 not early on
00:11:34.079 certainly
00:11:35.279 much after the the birth of language
00:11:39.680 so to me consciousness
00:11:42.720 uh
00:11:43.760 is uh
00:11:45.839 is so natural that that even science has
00:11:49.279 underestimated what it is
00:11:51.680 because
00:11:52.639 we could not know without consciousness
00:11:54.720 a computer doesn't know anything so a
00:11:56.480 computer cannot ask itself any question
00:12:00.079 cannot really
00:12:02.720 you know
00:12:04.320 see itself do what it does
00:12:08.240 consciousness is that capacity of a
00:12:10.680 self-reflection
00:12:12.320 that is inherent in the stuff of which
00:12:15.200 everything is made
00:12:17.120 and the computer
00:12:19.040 is really a symbolic structure that we
00:12:22.399 think is made of matter but matter is
00:12:24.959 actually a great illusion
00:12:27.200 because matter
00:12:28.880 is made of particles and particles
00:12:32.720 are not objects they are even in physics
00:12:35.839 they are states of the fields of
00:12:38.959 particles so this an electron is not a
00:12:42.560 particle it's not a little ball
00:12:44.560 little you know a little
00:12:46.880 uh a sphere
00:12:48.800 microscopic as you as you wish
00:12:51.440 it is actually a state of the field it's
00:12:54.079 actually
00:12:55.120 much closer to information
00:12:58.160 so the reality of what we call matter is
00:13:01.519 really informational reality has nothing
00:13:04.399 to do with stuff has all to do with
00:13:08.240 information but that information is
00:13:10.720 perceived by another informational
00:13:12.720 structure which is our body
00:13:14.639 and so it appears to have properties
00:13:17.760 which are really properties of the
00:13:19.600 interaction between the information
00:13:21.839 which is the body and the information
00:13:24.079 which is out there which is the things
00:13:26.000 of the world
00:13:30.399 are we any close to proving
00:13:32.000 scientifically that we are conscious
00:13:34.639 for all we know we could just be
00:13:36.720 sophisticated carbon-based biorobots
00:13:41.920 the fact of the matter is that
00:13:44.560 i cannot prove to you
00:13:47.279 or to anybody else that i'm conscious
00:13:50.079 i can only prove it to myself i know
00:13:52.160 that i'm conscious within myself that is
00:13:54.320 the fundamental property of
00:13:55.680 consciousness you cannot prove to me
00:13:58.160 that you are conscious so even the
00:14:00.480 turing test which you know is supposed
00:14:02.720 to show if a person is you know is
00:14:04.800 conscious or is intelligent is a silly
00:14:07.600 test it doesn't prove anything it is
00:14:10.880 like quantum information quantum
00:14:13.600 information
00:14:14.959 cannot be known
00:14:17.120 at all cannot be copied it is unknowable
00:14:21.839 so already physics is telling us that
00:14:24.320 there are things
00:14:25.839 which are not knowable
00:14:27.920 i can only know something about it but
00:14:30.800 very little about it and in the theory
00:14:33.839 that i have created together with
00:14:36.079 professor daliano a system
00:14:38.720 that is in a special state quantum
00:14:41.120 system which is in a special state which
00:14:43.120 is a coherent state it's called a pure
00:14:45.440 state
00:14:46.959 as the experience of itself and so
00:14:50.240 consciousness is this property
00:14:53.199 of systems quantum systems
00:14:55.760 that
00:14:56.560 are in a pure state and therefore can
00:14:58.240 know itself so
00:15:00.240 quantum information does not describe
00:15:03.600 information
00:15:04.959 because information should be should be
00:15:06.800 shareable should be known by everybody
00:15:09.040 like like the information of a computer
00:15:11.600 like the information you know
00:15:13.760 my speech can be heard by everybody
00:15:16.800 and so on
00:15:18.240 so
00:15:19.920 the only one that can know that
00:15:22.880 information that quantum information is
00:15:26.079 the system which has that state which
00:15:28.720 has that information so that quantum
00:15:30.800 state is a representation of an
00:15:33.120 experience
00:15:34.639 not a representation of information so
00:15:37.920 it's simply a misnomer quantum
00:15:39.920 information is in fact an experience and
00:15:43.120 now we can begin to understand what
00:15:44.720 quantum physics is saying
00:15:46.560 quantum physics is telling us
00:15:48.880 that there is such a thing as
00:15:52.240 experience which is
00:15:55.040 private to the person that has the
00:15:57.199 experience
00:15:58.720 and the person is a quantum system that
00:16:01.519 has an experience
00:16:03.120 and that experience cannot be known by
00:16:05.600 the person that has it
00:16:08.880 it feels counter-intuitive how classical
00:16:11.440 and quantum physics are concurrently
00:16:13.519 valid
00:16:14.560 after all one is deterministic and
00:16:16.800 reductionist while the other is
00:16:18.560 indeterministic and holistic
00:16:22.480 it's a very good point actually
00:16:24.880 because
00:16:25.920 because
00:16:27.920 quantum physics is more fundamental than
00:16:31.360 classical physics in fact
00:16:33.600 most scientists would tell you
00:16:35.759 what what i just said quantum physics is
00:16:38.480 foundational and classical physics is a
00:16:41.519 special case of quantum physics
00:16:45.120 so how come
00:16:46.560 the classical physics
00:16:48.480 is deterministic when
00:16:51.279 the foundational
00:16:53.040 science the foundation of physics is
00:16:55.839 non-deterministic
00:16:57.519 is uh is probabilistic and has all these
00:17:00.720 crazy properties
00:17:02.800 well
00:17:03.680 for this we need to go to a theory to
00:17:06.240 the theory that i'm developing with
00:17:08.400 professor dariano and also i have
00:17:10.400 developed myself previously where
00:17:13.119 basically reality has two aspects
00:17:16.079 an inner aspect which is
00:17:18.799 experiential which is semantic where we
00:17:22.000 get the meaning of our experience we
00:17:24.160 experience we get the meaning of our
00:17:26.000 experience
00:17:27.199 and a
00:17:28.400 aspect and a different aspect which is
00:17:32.080 symbolic
00:17:33.679 and consists of the symbols that we use
00:17:36.000 as conscious entities to communicate
00:17:37.919 with each other
00:17:39.280 so
00:17:40.240 what i'm saying then is that reality has
00:17:43.760 two faces two aspects one is
00:17:47.280 my
00:17:48.320 experience which is private
00:17:50.720 which is described
00:17:52.720 by quantum information so it's not
00:17:55.200 information it is experience the the
00:17:58.320 word quantum information is as i said
00:18:00.480 earlier is a misnomer it should not be
00:18:02.799 called information it should be called
00:18:04.400 experience because that information is
00:18:06.559 non-clonable it's not knowable it can
00:18:09.200 only be known by the entity that is
00:18:11.440 conscious the entity that is in that
00:18:13.919 state
00:18:15.039 and the outer aspect is the
00:18:17.360 informational aspects they are symbols
00:18:20.880 created by the entity that is conscious
00:18:23.679 so they don't exist in the same way
00:18:26.799 that the experience exists in other
00:18:28.720 words the ontology is in the experience
00:18:31.919 the symbols used to communicate the
00:18:34.320 experience does not have the same level
00:18:36.720 of reality even though it is part of the
00:18:39.360 experience
00:18:41.120 because it's what i use to communicate
00:18:43.600 but it is not necessarily conscious and
00:18:46.240 so that part is what creates what we
00:18:49.440 call
00:18:50.240 shareable symbols that's that is
00:18:52.000 classical information
00:18:53.919 that then behaves deterministically so
00:18:56.480 what behaves deterministically is the
00:18:59.039 outer aspect which is the lesser aspect
00:19:02.240 of the experience you see
00:19:06.960 you mentioned a new theory that you have
00:19:09.120 developed together with professor
00:19:10.720 diriano
00:19:12.000 what it's all about
00:19:15.360 uh the theory with professor giacomo
00:19:18.400 mauro daliano
00:19:20.480 is
00:19:21.840 a unpsychist theory
00:19:25.120 that recognizes that a system
00:19:28.720 which is in a pure
00:19:30.880 quantum state so a quantum system that
00:19:33.760 is in a pure quantum state
00:19:36.880 has an experience of its own state
00:19:40.240 so that's a postulate
00:19:42.080 and the justification for that
00:19:44.640 is very simple
00:19:46.240 first of all
00:19:47.520 a pure state is a definite state exactly
00:19:51.360 like the experience that we have is a
00:19:53.840 definite experience
00:19:55.520 it's not made of part is it is an
00:19:57.840 integrated experience as a unity in it
00:20:01.520 and it evolves as a unity and so it's
00:20:04.960 exactly like a quantum state does is is
00:20:08.559 a
00:20:09.200 it's like a vector
00:20:10.799 in a very special
00:20:12.320 space called the hilbert space
00:20:14.559 which has many dimensions
00:20:17.120 and each dimension is complex
00:20:19.520 unfortunately it cannot be explained in
00:20:21.760 any simpler terms of what i have said so
00:20:24.000 it's a is a mathematical space very
00:20:26.960 complicated mathematical space that
00:20:29.280 however is the representation
00:20:32.320 of the inner space
00:20:35.760 of our experience
00:20:37.600 which is
00:20:38.640 what we know
00:20:40.559 because we have an experience within
00:20:42.480 ourselves
00:20:44.000 and
00:20:45.840 the other thing is that
00:20:47.760 a pure quantum state
00:20:50.159 cannot be known from the outside no one
00:20:53.039 can know the state exactly like our
00:20:55.600 experience which is private i am the
00:20:58.240 only one that can know my experience
00:21:01.440 so
00:21:02.480 that quantum state can only be known by
00:21:04.799 the system that is in that state so
00:21:07.200 that's a very is very simple but it it
00:21:10.960 is so powerful because nobody has
00:21:13.520 thought about it and and it captures
00:21:16.320 exactly the craziness in a sense of
00:21:20.080 quantum physics by
00:21:22.720 showing that
00:21:24.880 pure quantum information
00:21:27.520 is actually is not information but it
00:21:30.400 relates to experience is actually
00:21:32.559 pointing to an experience which we can
00:21:35.280 understand now we can understand for
00:21:37.600 example why we cannot copy
00:21:40.080 a pure quantum information because
00:21:42.640 because uh you know there is a theorem
00:21:45.679 called the no cloning theorem and it
00:21:47.039 tells you they cannot do that it's just
00:21:48.559 a mathematical theorem is a fact of you
00:21:51.600 know effect of life so to speak but
00:21:53.840 nobody understands why there has to be
00:21:55.840 the effect of life well the effect of
00:21:58.320 life is because consciousness the
00:22:00.880 experience of consciousness is private
00:22:03.200 and the only thing that can be
00:22:05.520 copied is the actual information which
00:22:08.000 is classical information like the bits
00:22:10.159 of the computers which can be copied
00:22:12.799 and can be known by many can be shared
00:22:17.039 you speak of an experience of unity and
00:22:19.440 that it's not made of parts
00:22:21.600 that makes me think are whirlpools
00:22:23.760 separate or integral parts of a river
00:22:26.400 what is your view on the part whole
00:22:28.159 concept
00:22:31.520 the concept of part o is fundamental and
00:22:34.159 it is in fact the way
00:22:36.320 my body is actually built
00:22:39.360 i have about 50 trillion
00:22:42.559 cells
00:22:43.840 and each cell in my body contains the
00:22:46.559 genome
00:22:47.760 of the fertilized egg out of which my
00:22:50.799 body was constructed
00:22:52.559 so each part of me has the knowing has
00:22:56.159 all the characteristics of the whole
00:22:59.200 but it is specialized so that it does a
00:23:02.320 specific function while knowing the
00:23:05.120 whole because it has the genome of the
00:23:07.520 entire organism
00:23:09.440 a computer is not built this way a
00:23:11.840 computer has transistors which are
00:23:13.679 switches
00:23:14.880 and
00:23:16.000 a switch is just a switch you know it's
00:23:18.640 on or off period and it has no knowledge
00:23:21.600 whatsoever of the entire computer and
00:23:24.400 even less of the software that runs in
00:23:27.120 that computer so we are completely
00:23:30.480 different structures
00:23:32.080 than computers even though most
00:23:34.240 scientists would tell us that we are
00:23:36.080 like we are a machine like a computer
00:23:38.159 which is not true at all it even the
00:23:40.720 body which is quantum and classical
00:23:43.360 informational structure
00:23:45.200 is in a sense a copy of this
00:23:48.640 conscious entities which are part holes
00:23:52.000 there are points of view of one the
00:23:54.000 totality of what exists but they also
00:23:56.480 have all the characteristics of the
00:23:58.559 whole all the characteristics of one
00:24:01.440 so this concept is foundational
00:24:04.720 just like a particle is both a particle
00:24:06.960 and a wave you see you know there is the
00:24:09.279 repetition in life of something which we
00:24:12.720 do not want to understand because the
00:24:14.880 classical world is made of parts which
00:24:16.880 are separable it
00:24:19.039 but a part whole
00:24:20.799 has to be that way because one is
00:24:23.200 holistic is not made of parts that can
00:24:25.440 be taken apart
00:24:27.360 they they are integral of the whole and
00:24:30.720 they cannot be taken apart
00:24:35.200 speaking of the points of view of one
00:24:37.360 and many
00:24:38.480 some people who have had a unitary
00:24:40.720 experience of consciousness report the
00:24:42.880 disappearance of self at the moment of
00:24:44.960 becoming one with their surroundings
00:24:47.600 what are your thoughts on that
00:24:51.440 because when we are incarnated in a body
00:24:54.559 living this life
00:24:56.559 we are actually a much vaster entity
00:25:00.080 that believes to be the body so when we
00:25:02.720 believe to be the body we reduce
00:25:04.720 ourselves to
00:25:06.080 only that portion of ourselves that pays
00:25:08.880 attention to the information that is
00:25:11.600 created by the body so when we do that
00:25:14.400 we think that we are the body and we
00:25:16.320 become just a separate object
00:25:19.360 but then if we allow ourselves to think
00:25:22.080 of where we are
00:25:23.520 then we are the whole
00:25:25.679 in our in their native state we are the
00:25:28.960 whole
00:25:30.240 but with a point of view
00:25:32.480 the point of view which then becomes
00:25:35.120 a even smaller point of view which is
00:25:36.960 the point of view of the body when we
00:25:39.440 are incarnated but when we lose the body
00:25:42.640 will return to have that other point of
00:25:45.120 view which is vaster
00:25:46.960 and yet is still
00:25:48.640 a point of view which is unique to us
00:25:51.279 even if we can see the whole
00:25:56.720 why do we need a body at all
00:25:59.279 what is the purpose of life
00:26:03.120 why are we here right in my in my model
00:26:05.840 is still it is a theory really it is an
00:26:09.120 hypothesis at this point but it is an
00:26:11.200 hypothesis
00:26:12.480 that
00:26:13.440 has legs so to speak because it makes
00:26:16.480 sense
00:26:17.840 is that one the totality of what exists
00:26:21.919 desires to know itself
00:26:25.520 and
00:26:26.960 every time he knows something new about
00:26:29.840 itself
00:26:30.880 it brings into life into existence
00:26:34.799 what he knows about itself
00:26:37.520 what you know in other words existence
00:26:39.840 is equivalent to knowing
00:26:42.799 for one
00:26:44.080 so when one knows itself
00:26:46.960 it has a new
00:26:48.240 self-knowing not not the stuff that he
00:26:50.159 already knows about himself but a new
00:26:52.000 self-knowing
00:26:53.440 it brings into existence the new stuff
00:26:55.600 that he knows and that's an entity a
00:26:58.320 conscious entity like us that has to
00:27:01.039 have all its characteristics
00:27:03.840 meaning also that the entity that is
00:27:07.120 brought into being
00:27:09.200 into existence
00:27:10.799 also
00:27:12.080 has the desire to know itself
00:27:15.440 we are like that and we are here
00:27:18.080 to make an experience to know ourselves
00:27:21.440 this physical world in this model in
00:27:24.159 this theory
00:27:25.679 is simply a creation it's like a virtual
00:27:28.240 reality created in a computer where we
00:27:30.960 want to have a special experience now we
00:27:34.720 conscious entities collectively have
00:27:37.520 created this physical world which is
00:27:39.360 much more sophisticated than the virtual
00:27:41.600 realities that we create in the computer
00:27:43.840 to have an experience in order to know
00:27:46.240 ourselves
00:27:47.520 and that makes sense because we are
00:27:49.679 doing exactly the same in our life we
00:27:52.000 are creating computers and we are
00:27:54.320 creating programs programs that can
00:27:56.640 reproduce themselves exactly like we
00:27:59.520 have created the cells and the living
00:28:02.399 organisms that then can have an
00:28:04.320 experience in a classical world which is
00:28:06.960 made by computer you see we repeat over
00:28:10.240 and over the same pattern
00:28:14.320 what gives a greater impetus to the
00:28:16.320 creative drive in the unfolding of
00:28:18.480 existence
00:28:19.760 is it love or the desire to know
00:28:24.159 yeah my intuition that is that love
00:28:28.399 love is the taste so to speak is the
00:28:31.039 feeling that you have of yourself
00:28:34.000 knowing that was the taste i had when i
00:28:36.799 knew myself as the universe observing
00:28:39.760 itself with my point of view
00:28:42.399 that universe and myself
00:28:45.360 because i was the universe felt like
00:28:47.679 immense love immense joy men's peace it
00:28:50.960 felt like being at home
00:28:52.799 not my home but a vaster home which is
00:28:56.480 my
00:28:57.360 native and real home so to me love joy
00:29:00.720 those are feelings associated with
00:29:02.960 knowing with self-knowing uh so in a
00:29:05.679 sense if you say love and self-knowing
00:29:07.440 are the same thing
00:29:08.880 because you know they're certainly
00:29:10.000 inseparable once you know yourself
00:29:13.760 that knowing of yourself feels like love
00:29:16.559 so you know so then
00:29:18.559 yes then is the same that i said earlier
00:29:21.600 a new self-knowing generates a new
00:29:24.480 entity
00:29:25.600 that you can love and then loves
00:29:28.320 so
00:29:29.279 you see
00:29:30.159 because we we tend to think that things
00:29:32.880 are separate so properties are separate
00:29:35.919 properties are not separate i mean
00:29:38.000 properties are separate in the classical
00:29:40.000 world in the world of things in the
00:29:42.399 worlds of computers yes they're separate
00:29:44.880 there but but those things are not as
00:29:48.080 real as the ontology of knowing of
00:29:52.640 uh
00:29:53.600 of experience
00:29:55.039 where
00:29:56.080 that ontology is holistic and therefore
00:29:59.440 cannot be made of separable parts so
00:30:02.000 even the properties cannot be separable
00:30:06.000 so it means that love and joy are not
00:30:09.200 two separate things
00:30:11.120 love contains joy and joy contains love
00:30:14.399 you see so
00:30:16.799 a lot of the concepts that we have that
00:30:18.640 we
00:30:19.520 apply to reality are not applicable to
00:30:22.880 the inner world the inner world is made
00:30:25.200 of stuff that is
00:30:26.960 you know where where there are no real
00:30:29.679 there are no parts that are separable
00:30:31.520 just think about when when you when you
00:30:33.600 understand something new
00:30:35.520 you you have a wow i get it you know you
00:30:38.880 you feel joy you feel love for what you
00:30:41.120 have for what you have just done i mean
00:30:44.320 you know they're they're part of the
00:30:46.080 same part of the same structure you know
00:30:49.120 you know you you you also get the a new
00:30:52.640 structure in it you know you you get
00:30:54.880 this structure inside the new knowing
00:30:57.519 that is a structure and it is that
00:30:59.760 structure that you try to repeat or
00:31:02.159 represent in the symbols that you use
00:31:05.200 then to communicate your understanding
00:31:07.840 your knowing your your meaning to others
00:31:11.200 that's why
00:31:12.720 the physical reality also gets ever more
00:31:16.000 complex because with
00:31:18.559 our increasing self-knowing
00:31:21.360 to communicate we need ever more complex
00:31:24.159 symbols my body is a symbol that
00:31:26.799 communicates
00:31:28.799 and i need that symbol to communicate to
00:31:31.440 you to others and so
00:31:34.240 you know i'm a symbol made of 10 to the
00:31:36.480 28 atoms it's a lot of atoms to create
00:31:40.320 this symbol and you this the same so so
00:31:44.000 that tells you the the level of
00:31:47.360 self-knowing that we have reached as
00:31:50.240 conscious entities we need symbols like
00:31:52.640 you and i to communicate
00:31:58.960 i guess it's only possible to know all
00:32:01.279 this through first person experience or
00:32:03.440 perhaps even a deeper experience of
00:32:05.760 consciousness
00:32:08.960 knowing can only be
00:32:11.679 an inner
00:32:12.840 experience a computer cannot know a
00:32:15.840 mathematical formula cannot know
00:32:18.640 so
00:32:19.440 knowing is what we do as conscious
00:32:22.080 entities so as i said you cannot prove
00:32:25.519 that stuff
00:32:27.279 you can only prove it within yourself
00:32:29.600 you know it within yourself and if you
00:32:32.000 know the same thing within yourself but
00:32:33.600 then we can agree and then we may even
00:32:35.519 find the mathematical formula that
00:32:37.840 captures some of not all of it but some
00:32:41.039 of the structure which is inherent and
00:32:43.360 not join knowing
00:32:45.279 but
00:32:46.000 the idea that you have to prove
00:32:48.559 everything that you say
00:32:50.640 is completely wrong it can only it can
00:32:53.360 only work for a world which is classical
00:32:56.240 it cannot work for a world that is
00:32:57.760 quantum because quantum information
00:33:00.559 cannot be cloned cannot be known it can
00:33:03.519 only be known but but not known as
00:33:06.559 structure it cannot it can only be known
00:33:08.399 from within by the entity the head that
00:33:11.120 is in that state you see
00:33:19.519 it is quite something to get your head
00:33:21.519 around
00:33:22.559 difficult but interesting
00:33:26.399 because
00:33:27.200 otherwise we would be machines come on
00:33:29.519 we would be machine of course that's
00:33:31.279 what science is telling us we are
00:33:32.799 machines but but this is the wrong idea
00:33:35.200 that we need to go beyond
00:33:37.279 machines are machines there are machines
00:33:39.840 but we are not machines
00:33:41.600 we are also machines in other words our
00:33:44.320 body the functioning of our body can all
00:33:46.960 be described as a machine but we are
00:33:49.039 more because we are connected with an
00:33:52.480 entity which is which is quantum that
00:33:55.200 does not even exist in this space time
00:33:57.840 it exists in a reality which is vaster
00:34:01.200 contains space-time but it is vaster
00:34:04.159 than space-time so i am an entity that
00:34:07.600 controls my body my body is a structure
00:34:10.399 in space-time which then can
00:34:12.399 disintegrate and i don't go anywhere
00:34:14.879 because i i exist and once i exist i
00:34:18.079 exist forever i i'm not going to die as
00:34:21.440 a conscious entity my body dies of
00:34:23.440 course
00:34:24.399 but because my body is not an ontology
00:34:26.960 is symbolic
00:34:30.719 but all the experiences that one has as
00:34:33.359 incarnated consciousness do not simply
00:34:35.679 disappear right
00:34:39.280 yeah those experiences are you know
00:34:42.159 must be
00:34:43.280 must be store their memories according
00:34:45.918 to this theory with dariano must be
00:34:48.879 stored classically but
00:34:52.320 i i may only be the one that understands
00:34:55.918 the code in which i store my experiences
00:34:58.960 so so if you don't if you don't know the
00:35:01.280 code you may not have my experience
00:35:03.200 either and besides even if i had the
00:35:05.359 code of the storage
00:35:08.079 that is simply a pointer to the
00:35:10.720 experience
00:35:11.920 the you know it's like it
00:35:13.520 is like an address to memory but the
00:35:16.160 information is in memory so
00:35:18.960 my
00:35:20.320 my memory of an experience is in the
00:35:22.480 form of a pointer to a
00:35:26.480 experience that is in me
00:35:29.760 and so i can recreate my experience but
00:35:32.960 it may not be exactly the same as when i
00:35:35.440 experienced it originally but it is it
00:35:38.240 is still my experience because the
00:35:41.119 dynamism of my experience is such that i
00:35:44.640 can only store a portion of my
00:35:46.720 experience because my experience is much
00:35:49.119 deeper than what i can put into symbols
00:35:52.560 exactly for the same reason that i
00:35:54.400 cannot clone
00:35:55.920 my quantum state my quantum state i can
00:35:58.800 only feel it
00:36:00.320 and
00:36:01.359 all that i can understand and code into
00:36:04.720 into symbols is a portion of what i feel
00:36:08.800 just when you feel love for one for for
00:36:11.040 a son or a daughter for example can you
00:36:14.000 express all of that love with in
00:36:16.480 symbolic form by writing it or worse
00:36:19.520 no i mean only a portion of it and
00:36:21.839 besides it keeps on changing so it's
00:36:24.240 it's a you know love is a is a moving
00:36:27.359 target sort of speaking it is never the
00:36:29.440 same so so the nature of experience is
00:36:32.720 this constant dynamic thing and
00:36:35.119 constantly changing but holistic
00:36:37.440 connected with everything else that we
00:36:39.200 are
00:36:41.359 i've read in your book silicon that
00:36:43.200 consciousness is already present in the
00:36:45.280 atoms and molecules of which everything
00:36:47.599 is made
00:36:48.720 can computers or artificial intelligence
00:36:51.359 become conscious then
00:36:53.200 the difference between us and them seems
00:36:55.359 to lie only in the complexity and
00:36:57.440 composition of atoms
00:37:01.359 no
00:37:02.160 because that phrase that i made
00:37:05.040 it was in the context the matter what we
00:37:08.480 think of as matter
00:37:10.640 also is conscious but not in the trivial
00:37:13.920 way in which we think
00:37:15.520 what is conscious is not the electron or
00:37:18.720 the atom but is the field of electrons
00:37:22.400 the field of atoms and so so the
00:37:26.240 consciousness is a property of fields
00:37:28.880 and not the property of matter because
00:37:32.800 particles for example i said earlier a
00:37:36.079 state of fields they're not even they're
00:37:38.320 not even things they're not objects so
00:37:41.200 and we are not made of objects we are
00:37:43.280 made of states we are information really
00:37:45.920 we are information
00:37:47.920 our the body is quantum and classical
00:37:51.119 information
00:37:52.480 where a computer is only classical
00:37:55.280 information
00:37:56.480 so
00:37:57.359 my body
00:37:59.599 can host consciousness because it can
00:38:02.400 communicate with a conscious being which
00:38:04.560 is quantum
00:38:06.000 but a quantum
00:38:07.520 conscious being cannot communicate
00:38:09.599 directly with a computer is to
00:38:12.320 communicate through a living organism
00:38:15.359 with
00:38:16.480 with a quantum to classical
00:38:18.240 transformation which is of a different
00:38:20.000 nature than what you could do
00:38:21.920 with with with quantum to classical in a
00:38:24.320 computer because a bit is a is simply a
00:38:28.640 complicated classical structure made of
00:38:32.240 many particles many states which are
00:38:34.880 disorganized
00:38:36.320 and but the states that are disorganized
00:38:39.040 they can carry for example a signal you
00:38:42.240 know and the signal can have
00:38:44.880 two states and then you say
00:38:47.599 this signal represents a bit a zero or a
00:38:50.160 one
00:38:51.040 but
00:38:52.880 when
00:38:53.680 when you go from quantum information
00:38:56.320 to classical information you have to
00:38:58.960 manipulate at the level of particles and
00:39:01.680 atoms
00:39:02.720 singularly so you can only communicate
00:39:04.800 with cells with living cells which are
00:39:07.520 quantum and classical structures they
00:39:09.440 are not classical structures
00:39:11.440 so even quantum computers cannot be
00:39:13.839 conscious like we are cannot have free
00:39:16.000 will because quantum computers
00:39:18.480 use only a special
00:39:21.119 part of quantumness which is the
00:39:23.839 quantumness that maintains determinism
00:39:27.680 you have to use unitary transformations
00:39:30.400 sorry for using a technical term but it
00:39:33.520 means that it behaves like a classical
00:39:35.440 system
00:39:36.800 and therefore a quantum computer can
00:39:38.960 only do what a
00:39:40.560 classical computer can do but it but it
00:39:42.880 can do it faster so that's the only
00:39:44.960 difference between a quantum computer
00:39:46.640 the way we understand quantum computers
00:39:48.800 and classical computers
00:39:50.800 but a living system can actually be
00:39:54.480 directed directly by a quantum
00:39:58.160 entity which is a conscious entity and
00:40:00.400 that has free will and can do like it
00:40:03.200 like a drone so to speak that
00:40:06.079 allows
00:40:07.680 the quantum world to talk to the
00:40:10.000 classical world with which we interact
00:40:12.640 as a body as a physical body
00:40:16.319 but the inter the interaction has to
00:40:18.800 occur at the level of what i call
00:40:21.040 live information atoms and molecules or
00:40:24.640 particles directly into in a structure
00:40:27.839 which is orderly made of quantum parts
00:40:30.720 like living cells very different living
00:40:32.960 cell like i mentioned earlier a living
00:40:35.440 cell is a part whole is not a part
00:40:40.560 artificial intelligence already beats
00:40:42.880 the best human minds at chess and the
00:40:45.200 game of go
00:40:46.560 it also creates terrific artwork
00:40:49.440 it's even possible already to envisage
00:40:51.839 machines designing and building other
00:40:53.920 machines better than people can do
00:40:56.800 what is the future like for us
00:41:01.040 i would say that
00:41:03.440 it is easy to extrapolate you know we
00:41:06.240 love to extrapolate
00:41:08.000 uh like we extrapolate for example a
00:41:11.040 series
00:41:12.079 with a limit to infinity but infinity is
00:41:14.960 is very big it's much bigger than any
00:41:18.160 any large thing no matter how large you
00:41:20.640 make something which is finite
00:41:22.800 infinite is much larger so
00:41:25.200 so here we have the same problem we
00:41:27.359 think that we know so much about
00:41:29.920 artificial intelligence but in reality
00:41:32.480 the things that we can do are things
00:41:34.400 which have rules which we have
00:41:36.640 determined
00:41:37.839 like making multiplications
00:41:40.400 uh you know we have rules and so we can
00:41:42.240 make a computer that makes
00:41:43.680 multiplications uh i don't know one
00:41:46.640 trillion times faster that we can do it
00:41:49.520 but so what the same is
00:41:52.319 playing the game where there are rules
00:41:55.119 but we can play games where there are no
00:41:57.520 rules we can figure out the rules we can
00:42:00.800 do things that computers can never do
00:42:03.599 because we have consciousness because we
00:42:05.680 understand
00:42:07.040 because we have also heart
00:42:10.079 and we have also belly which is courage
00:42:12.880 which is the ability to take risks which
00:42:15.520 is abilities that computers don't have
00:42:17.680 so we are absolutely selling ourselves
00:42:20.960 short when we say the things that you
00:42:23.200 just said all the computers of the
00:42:25.040 future will be much better than ours
00:42:26.640 blah blah blah blah blah blah but that's
00:42:28.720 not true the computers are beautiful
00:42:32.000 machines they can absolutely be helpful
00:42:34.960 to us
00:42:36.079 but they can also be used to kill
00:42:39.040 more efficiently than we do and so we
00:42:41.520 have to be very careful here
00:42:43.599 we have to be very careful not to lose
00:42:46.640 our sense of what we are because if we
00:42:49.040 think that we are machines inferior to
00:42:51.599 the machines that we will build in the
00:42:52.960 future we will self-destruct
00:42:55.359 i'm sure of this
00:42:58.640 but artificial intelligence is already
00:43:01.119 increasingly used to improve precision
00:43:03.520 or to shorten the decision-making time
00:43:06.400 so it's possible that for efficiency
00:43:08.800 reason systems like defense or medical
00:43:11.040 devices will be transferred entirely to
00:43:13.520 artificial intelligence in the future
00:43:18.079 the worst thing that we can do is to
00:43:21.119 delegate to artificial intelligence
00:43:23.520 decisions which have an ethical uh a
00:43:27.280 moral character if we do that we are
00:43:30.560 doomed
00:43:33.839 would it be fair to say that human
00:43:35.599 beings in other words biology will
00:43:38.800 inevitably merge with technology in the
00:43:40.960 future
00:43:43.599 that is definitely in the future there
00:43:45.920 is definitely the possibility to create
00:43:48.160 cyborgs
00:43:49.599 which is what you are referring to in
00:43:51.839 other words
00:43:52.880 mixture of
00:43:54.720 living
00:43:56.000 living entities and
00:43:58.079 computers
00:43:59.200 but then
00:44:00.640 those
00:44:01.520 will be conscious
00:44:03.040 and so how will the consciousness of
00:44:05.280 that you know can we control that
00:44:07.760 consciousness i don't think so so if we
00:44:10.000 do that then we have entities that we
00:44:12.160 cannot control there are entities that
00:44:14.160 that will have consciousness they can be
00:44:16.480 inhabited by conscious entities that we
00:44:18.880 cannot control so i don't think it would
00:44:21.760 be wise to do that but
00:44:24.079 it can it can happen it can be done
00:44:28.400 indeed we already experiment with dna
00:44:31.680 cloning and also implant chips in
00:44:34.400 animals brains
00:44:37.760 it will be done and uh you know and
00:44:40.480 there will be dire consequences by
00:44:43.040 making mistakes in that area so that's
00:44:46.160 an area that i would stay away until we
00:44:49.599 understand how life works we do not
00:44:52.960 understand how life works
00:44:55.119 but life has ways to evolve that we have
00:44:59.119 no idea and so we are playing with fire
00:45:02.480 if we do that and we should not
00:45:04.960 play with fire
00:45:06.960 well we're kids now playing with fire
00:45:09.760 and we better be careful
00:45:13.119 some people speak of achieving
00:45:14.800 immortality by downloading themselves
00:45:17.280 into a computer or a machine
00:45:20.000 what are your thoughts on that
00:45:23.760 that's the silliest thing i heard right
00:45:26.319 because
00:45:27.200 we are immortal you know my
00:45:29.359 consciousness is that you know all i've
00:45:31.760 said today is that we are immortal so
00:45:34.400 why do we need to download
00:45:36.319 into a computer besides if i could
00:45:38.640 download in a computer my personality my
00:45:41.680 memory oh all i am could be copy in
00:45:44.640 other n computers you see that's why it
00:45:47.920 is not possible we are unique
00:45:51.599 by design by the way we were created we
00:45:55.280 cannot be copied we are
00:45:57.680 unique we are who we are and we always
00:46:01.359 be what we are that's why my experience
00:46:03.599 cannot be clonable
00:46:05.760 and my experience is described as
00:46:08.160 quantum information that's why quantum
00:46:10.720 information is not clonable because it
00:46:13.520 has to be only knowable by its owner
00:46:19.200 but functional magnetic resonance
00:46:21.040 imaging technology and deep neural
00:46:23.119 network software can already allow us to
00:46:25.359 roughly decipher some of our inner
00:46:27.200 perceptions
00:46:30.079 it can only see
00:46:31.839 generically you may see that you may be
00:46:34.800 hungry for example but not the
00:46:37.440 experience of hunger that you have
00:46:41.440 the feeling tones of your hunger are not
00:46:44.640 in those signals
00:46:47.920 so purely from a technical point of view
00:46:50.880 it will be possible to download some
00:46:52.880 limited information but certainly not
00:46:55.440 experiences or entire consciousness
00:46:59.920 that's right in fact you know uh
00:47:02.880 you you can measure for example a
00:47:05.680 quantum system a simple quantum system
00:47:08.240 not you know a complex condo system like
00:47:10.640 we are it's just out of out of bound but
00:47:13.280 a simple quantum system you can measure
00:47:15.680 but when you measure it
00:47:17.680 first of all you
00:47:19.200 disturb in a irreversible way the system
00:47:22.880 that you measure so you only see a
00:47:25.200 portion of it
00:47:26.480 and the portion that you see
00:47:28.640 at most corresponds to one bit one
00:47:32.240 classical bit of a computer to a quantum
00:47:35.359 bit of the
00:47:37.440 system of the uh of quantum information
00:47:40.640 that you represent so the quantum
00:47:43.280 information is many quantum bits and
00:47:46.160 tango you get at most
00:47:48.880 one bit per quantum bit that's
00:47:51.760 another theorem quantum on quantum
00:47:53.680 information olivos theorem and by the
00:47:55.760 way a quantum bit is an infinity of
00:47:57.839 states a quantum bit corresponds to a
00:48:00.640 point to any point on the surface of a
00:48:03.680 sphere so is a direction in space it is
00:48:06.960 a directional space that can be
00:48:09.680 an infinite
00:48:11.280 possibilities it reduces to zero or one
00:48:15.280 that's how that's how reduce is
00:48:18.079 classical systems like a computer or
00:48:21.599 like physical reality when you make a
00:48:23.280 measurement you can only get one bit per
00:48:26.240 quantum bit
00:48:29.520 you've started a foundation dedicated to
00:48:31.839 the scientific study of consciousness
00:48:34.559 what are the most promising fields in
00:48:36.880 science today to study consciousness and
00:48:39.440 why
00:48:42.640 well there are many extraordinary
00:48:46.640 experiences of consciousness that we you
00:48:49.760 know we know very little
00:48:51.760 because
00:48:52.800 science has not really uh done much to
00:48:56.000 study them uh so far
00:48:58.400 for example
00:48:59.760 out-of-body experiences uh which you
00:49:02.880 know hundreds of thousands of people
00:49:04.800 have done so
00:49:06.480 so those are those are type of uh
00:49:09.440 extraordinary experiences that could be
00:49:11.599 studied systematically and understand
00:49:15.119 how consciousness can in fact experience
00:49:19.119 reality without the sensory system of
00:49:22.079 the body how is that possible how can
00:49:24.400 you out of body see things
00:49:27.440 like they are in the physical world or
00:49:30.960 even see worlds which don't correspond
00:49:34.319 to this physical world
00:49:36.160 this is not an occasional person that
00:49:38.720 has these experiences but
00:49:40.640 there are hundreds of thousands of
00:49:42.000 people that do this
00:49:43.680 but even more simple things need to be
00:49:46.559 studied
00:49:49.119 and for example
00:49:51.040 special effects that we have like
00:49:54.200 three-dimensional effects that we have
00:49:57.200 when we see only in two dimension our
00:50:00.000 eyes are two-dimensional and uh
00:50:03.200 and so we we have special things that
00:50:05.680 happen in the brain that
00:50:09.680 are not explainable
00:50:12.000 without emotional consciousness but
00:50:15.760 most important we need a theory
00:50:18.559 that can make predictions and the first
00:50:21.040 theory that i know of is this theory
00:50:23.839 that dariano and myself have developed
00:50:26.880 uh is it this theory is falsifiable so
00:50:30.000 it's a actually it's a physical theory
00:50:32.880 that can be can be disproven
00:50:35.599 uh if it could not be disproven it would
00:50:37.760 not be a theory and so so so now we can
00:50:41.680 formulate questions in a way that is
00:50:44.960 scientific and then we can proceed with
00:50:47.440 making experiments so
00:50:49.040 uh
00:50:49.839 this you know this is the first step is
00:50:52.160 to have a if
00:50:53.920 a theory
00:50:55.599 that is in principle uh a theory
00:50:58.960 that consider uh systems as black boxes
00:51:02.800 and can make predictions and this is uh
00:51:05.200 this is the
00:51:06.400 the road ahead of us
00:51:09.680 where can we learn more about your new
00:51:11.760 theory
00:51:14.480 this theory is already published as a
00:51:16.720 chapter in the book the book is entitled
00:51:20.960 artificial intelligence versus uh
00:51:23.599 natural intelligence
00:51:25.520 by springer and is available right now
00:51:28.079 so it's uh it's already a published
00:51:30.240 theory
00:51:31.280 and then we can go from here
00:51:35.680 i've read in your other book silicon
00:51:37.599 that we need a paradigm shift in the
00:51:39.680 organization of science toward the
00:51:41.680 primacy of consciousness and free will
00:51:44.720 what needs to change for such a shift to
00:51:47.040 occur
00:51:50.079 well we need to take seriously the
00:51:53.040 fact that consciousness may be for the
00:51:55.520 people that don't believe
00:51:57.359 um
00:51:58.319 uh
00:51:59.280 a fundamental property of nature
00:52:02.319 and uh
00:52:04.480 and so
00:52:05.440 we cannot just dismiss it as it has been
00:52:08.079 done in the past
00:52:09.599 by most scientists um
00:52:12.720 so that it's taken seriously
00:52:15.440 of course by taking seriously
00:52:17.520 consciousness
00:52:18.880 uh as a fundamental property as i said
00:52:21.920 earlier the entire narrative of science
00:52:25.040 needs to change and that that is why
00:52:28.000 many people don't accept this because it
00:52:30.960 would mean that
00:52:32.400 the story that we have that we're
00:52:34.079 telling each other is not correct and so
00:52:36.559 that's a major major consequence of
00:52:39.680 starting
00:52:40.800 in this direction um
00:52:43.040 and yet
00:52:44.000 the theory that with ariana
00:52:47.440 doesn't change anything of the uh of the
00:52:51.200 facts of physics that we know it simply
00:52:54.079 interprets it in a completely different
00:52:56.319 way the natural reality and because of
00:52:59.359 that we can imagine questions to ask
00:53:02.720 that with the prior
00:53:04.880 mindset we would never ask because we
00:53:07.119 would consider silly or stupid so it is
00:53:10.079 time to
00:53:11.359 step forward and take seriously the
00:53:13.920 nature of consciousness because science
00:53:16.319 certainly doesn't have the explanation
00:53:18.559 science cannot explain why life exists
00:53:21.359 as a natural phenomenon uh this where a
00:53:25.839 cell self-assemble no one has shown how
00:53:29.359 a cell can self-assemble into a leaving
00:53:33.119 self-reproducing cell for example
00:53:35.839 there are people are
00:53:37.839 arm wavy just like the eye arm waving
00:53:40.880 when they say the consciousness is
00:53:42.960 produced somehow by the brain
00:53:45.280 but that's not an explanation
00:53:47.680 so
00:53:49.040 i can in fact uh with this new theory
00:53:52.960 explained
00:53:54.160 eventually uh can be explained why
00:53:57.200 brains can be created by conscious
00:53:59.520 entities that interact with each other
00:54:02.800 because eventually their self-knowledge
00:54:06.240 will bring them to the creation of
00:54:08.800 structures which are what we know as a
00:54:10.800 brain
00:54:13.680 what piece of advice would you give to
00:54:15.599 someone whose career path is related to
00:54:18.000 science
00:54:20.800 i would say the following i would say
00:54:22.960 that as a overall general comment
00:54:26.079 that
00:54:28.160 we started with the idea as scientists
00:54:31.119 that the world is objective
00:54:34.160 and uh
00:54:35.760 and through that premise or
00:54:39.280 presupposition
00:54:40.799 we have made tremendous progress but we
00:54:42.880 ended up
00:54:44.000 about a hundred years ago
00:54:45.760 with inability to explain phenomena
00:54:48.960 the classical physics couldn't
00:54:51.839 even hope to to explain in fact the
00:54:55.280 mathematics
00:54:56.720 of classical physics predicted
00:54:59.200 you know phenomena that went to infinity
00:55:01.359 when in fact they went to zero like the
00:55:04.240 emission
00:55:05.440 of
00:55:06.480 black body radiation
00:55:08.880 so
00:55:10.000 trusting too much our mathematical model
00:55:13.040 when we go to the to the extreme cases
00:55:16.799 uh we we can find ourselves in big
00:55:19.839 trouble
00:55:20.799 today we cannot join
00:55:23.040 general relativity with phantom field
00:55:25.520 theory which are the two pillars of
00:55:28.559 physics
00:55:30.000 and
00:55:30.720 it seems impossible to be able to do
00:55:32.799 that i think that it will be impossible
00:55:35.119 unless we change our ideas of what
00:55:37.359 quantum physics is telling and what the
00:55:39.760 general relativity especially the
00:55:42.079 gravitational force stands for so
00:55:45.920 by
00:55:46.960 changing the paradigm
00:55:49.040 and by considering that
00:55:51.440 inner and outer reality exist because
00:55:54.319 they we know that they exist in
00:55:56.079 ourselves and we can now imagine the
00:55:59.599 world as an interaction between
00:56:01.440 subjective and objective between quantum
00:56:04.240 information which is the subjective
00:56:05.920 aspect of us
00:56:07.359 and
00:56:08.480 classical information which is the
00:56:10.559 objective
00:56:12.160 shareable part of reality so here we
00:56:14.799 have a new way of understanding reality
00:56:17.920 that is richer and that returns humanity
00:56:21.599 returns meaning and purpose to the
00:56:24.000 universe that the idea that we live only
00:56:27.359 in an objective world devoid of any
00:56:30.240 purpose and meaning
00:56:31.839 has destroyed so thank you very much
00:56:37.040 essentia foundation recommends dr fed
00:56:39.839 jeans books
00:56:41.599 silicon
00:56:43.040 and artificial intelligence versus
00:56:46.319 natural intelligence
00:56:51.950 [Music]